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	<title>Comments for Julio Santos</title>
	<atom:link href="http://morgane.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://morgane.com</link>
	<description>All over the world</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:18:52 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Simply Scheme is available online by Bayard Randel</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/07/07/simply-scheme-is-available-online/comment-page-1/#comment-46671</link>
		<dc:creator>Bayard Randel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=500#comment-46671</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the pdf concatenation tip - not sure why they distributed Simply Scheme this way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the pdf concatenation tip &#8211; not sure why they distributed Simply Scheme this way!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Kevin Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45475</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45475</guid>
		<description>The MOST annoying thing about e=mc2 was how it tried to teach super basic maths to show that maths was not scary. On almost every page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MOST annoying thing about e=mc2 was how it tried to teach super basic maths to show that maths was not scary. On almost every page.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45472</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45472</guid>
		<description>Ok, more seriously (see comments on the blog from 4 years ago)...
E=mc^2 was an unusual book for me:  I really like some of the information, but I really hated the writing. OTOH after I finished it Anton read it and now Andreas is read it, so it clearly has something going for it.
Feynan is one of my heroes. Have you read anything of his before?
The Botany of Desire is on the list of books I&#039;d like to read. 
The Cocoa book is on my shelf and I&#039;m sorry I didn&#039;t make more progress with it last year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, more seriously (see comments on the blog from 4 years ago)&#8230;<br />
E=mc^2 was an unusual book for me:  I really like some of the information, but I really hated the writing. OTOH after I finished it Anton read it and now Andreas is read it, so it clearly has something going for it.<br />
Feynan is one of my heroes. Have you read anything of his before?<br />
The Botany of Desire is on the list of books I&#8217;d like to read.<br />
The Cocoa book is on my shelf and I&#8217;m sorry I didn&#8217;t make more progress with it last year.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45418</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45418</guid>
		<description>I know you’ve moved The Ancestor’s Tale to the bottom of the stack just to torment me, but it won’t work, I won’t let it bother me.

Bastard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know you’ve moved The Ancestor’s Tale to the bottom of the stack just to torment me, but it won’t work, I won’t let it bother me.</p>
<p>Bastard.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45417</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45417</guid>
		<description>ancestor&#039;s tale being still there is what I was referring to with &quot;some things never change&quot; :(

I want to read it, but it&#039;s so damn heavy (as in many pounds). Maybe if I had a PDF version.

I like most of the Shermer books, though I&#039;m not feeling this one.

I also like Hitchens, and this one was a gift. I will read it, I know I will.

New Dawkins is great. I&#039;m 80% done. Every page is evidence for evolution. 450 pages of evidence! I can&#039;t imagine anyone who is honestly curious about evolution not finish the book as *knowing* that evolution is a fact. Of course, the flaw is that people who doubt evolution have many more other opportunities for learning it, and if they haven&#039;t done it by now, they never will and prefer not to know. Or in other words, the book is preaching to the choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ancestor&#8217;s tale being still there is what I was referring to with &#8220;some things never change&#8221; :(</p>
<p>I want to read it, but it&#8217;s so damn heavy (as in many pounds). Maybe if I had a PDF version.</p>
<p>I like most of the Shermer books, though I&#8217;m not feeling this one.</p>
<p>I also like Hitchens, and this one was a gift. I will read it, I know I will.</p>
<p>New Dawkins is great. I&#8217;m 80% done. Every page is evidence for evolution. 450 pages of evidence! I can&#8217;t imagine anyone who is honestly curious about evolution not finish the book as *knowing* that evolution is a fact. Of course, the flaw is that people who doubt evolution have many more other opportunities for learning it, and if they haven&#8217;t done it by now, they never will and prefer not to know. Or in other words, the book is preaching to the choir.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Kevin Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45413</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45413</guid>
		<description>Hey - wait - ancestor&#039;s tale was at bottom 4 years ago. Are you avoiding it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey &#8211; wait &#8211; ancestor&#8217;s tale was at bottom 4 years ago. Are you avoiding it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pile of books &#8211; 4 years later by Kevin Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/18/pile-of-books-4-years-later/comment-page-1/#comment-45412</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=552#comment-45412</guid>
		<description>Let me help you out:

Genome - outstanding.
Ancestor&#039;s tale - best book of the century so far.
Haven&#039;t enjoyed any Shermer books yet. No reason to believe this would be any better.
E=MC2 - I just read this a couple of weeks ago. Starts very well, tails off a bit at the end. Best intro to relativity I have read.

Hitchens - meh.

Let me know how latest Dawkins is. I have read all of his previous books but I wonder what he has to say that is new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me help you out:</p>
<p>Genome &#8211; outstanding.<br />
Ancestor&#8217;s tale &#8211; best book of the century so far.<br />
Haven&#8217;t enjoyed any Shermer books yet. No reason to believe this would be any better.<br />
E=MC2 &#8211; I just read this a couple of weeks ago. Starts very well, tails off a bit at the end. Best intro to relativity I have read.</p>
<p>Hitchens &#8211; meh.</p>
<p>Let me know how latest Dawkins is. I have read all of his previous books but I wonder what he has to say that is new.</p>
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		<title>Comment on uninitialized  constant MysqlCompat::MysqlRes by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/10/10/uninitialized-constant-mysqlcompatmysqlres/comment-page-1/#comment-44998</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=524#comment-44998</guid>
		<description>I pre-ordered Snow Leopard but still haven&#039;t installed it yet.

Maybe I can wait another week...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pre-ordered Snow Leopard but still haven&#8217;t installed it yet.</p>
<p>Maybe I can wait another week&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-44804</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-44804</guid>
		<description>MSBuild, excellent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MSBuild, excellent!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-44776</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-44776</guid>
		<description>Uncle Bob started his own list of great products that were created with TDD:

http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2009/10/07/tdd-derangement-syndrome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle Bob started his own list of great products that were created with TDD:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2009/10/07/tdd-derangement-syndrome" rel="nofollow">http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2009/10/07/tdd-derangement-syndrome</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on upgrading to snow leopard by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/29/upgrading-to-snow-leopard/comment-page-1/#comment-38042</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=519#comment-38042</guid>
		<description>mysql seems to be broken...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mysql seems to be broken&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-37707</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-37707</guid>
		<description>Scott, chrome fits my awesomeness model very well. We agree there. I don&#039;t know if it was built using TDD the way you and I used to do it. Do you know?

I also agree that we may never know how Amazon was truly built, though I&#039;m guessing that if any (awesome) company or product had TDD/agile at its core, someone would mention it. Especially nowadays where agile is really a marketing tool and less a software development one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, chrome fits my awesomeness model very well. We agree there. I don&#8217;t know if it was built using TDD the way you and I used to do it. Do you know?</p>
<p>I also agree that we may never know how Amazon was truly built, though I&#8217;m guessing that if any (awesome) company or product had TDD/agile at its core, someone would mention it. Especially nowadays where agile is really a marketing tool and less a software development one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-37236</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-37236</guid>
		<description>Kevin, that&#039;s nice :) 

Though one day I wish I will be able to say that microplace changed the world (and then I can use it as an example of tdd success), I don&#039;t think it&#039;s fair to claim victory yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, that&#8217;s nice :) </p>
<p>Though one day I wish I will be able to say that microplace changed the world (and then I can use it as an example of tdd success), I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair to claim victory yet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Kevin Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-37232</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-37232</guid>
		<description>&gt; what are examples of awesome discoveries/products/inventions/etc where the authors used TDD?

Microplace!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; what are examples of awesome discoveries/products/inventions/etc where the authors used TDD?</p>
<p>Microplace!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-37107</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-37107</guid>
		<description>EGHM, good point on the 10 year thing.

Perhaps unfairly, but I do want to extend &quot;companies&quot; to more than just that. I want to also include inventions, products, even ideas, where the authors got there test first.

Reading books on history of science, or history of inventions, or whatever (and presumably, if an invention/idea/product/works of art makes history, it&#039;s because it has some awesomeness...for the most part), I&#039;m not convinced the authors used test first. Perhaps they did, perhaps that&#039;s how science/art works in the first place. I&#039;m just not seeing it yet. I hope I will though, as like I said, test first/high quality is my bread and butter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EGHM, good point on the 10 year thing.</p>
<p>Perhaps unfairly, but I do want to extend &#8220;companies&#8221; to more than just that. I want to also include inventions, products, even ideas, where the authors got there test first.</p>
<p>Reading books on history of science, or history of inventions, or whatever (and presumably, if an invention/idea/product/works of art makes history, it&#8217;s because it has some awesomeness&#8230;for the most part), I&#8217;m not convinced the authors used test first. Perhaps they did, perhaps that&#8217;s how science/art works in the first place. I&#8217;m just not seeing it yet. I hope I will though, as like I said, test first/high quality is my bread and butter.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Julio Santos</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-37105</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-37105</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I think I can find 100 companies/products/technologies/discoveries/etc I (and most of the world) consider awesome. I know you can too. &quot;Companies&quot; is shorthand for all those major breakthroughs.

Perhaps you&#039;re right on the TDD/awesomeness non-correlation. In fact, I&#039;m sure TDD can never be the only factor. But all things being equal, awesome strat, etc, what are examples of awesome discoveries/products/inventions/etc where the authors used TDD?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I think I can find 100 companies/products/technologies/discoveries/etc I (and most of the world) consider awesome. I know you can too. &#8220;Companies&#8221; is shorthand for all those major breakthroughs.</p>
<p>Perhaps you&#8217;re right on the TDD/awesomeness non-correlation. In fact, I&#8217;m sure TDD can never be the only factor. But all things being equal, awesome strat, etc, what are examples of awesome discoveries/products/inventions/etc where the authors used TDD?</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Scott Brown</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-33650</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-33650</guid>
		<description>I think it may be difficult to find good examples, because most commercially successful development processes are walled gardens.  We may never know exactly how Amazon&#039;s platform was built unless an ex-employee writes a book or Amazon themselves choose to publish a case study.

I will take a stab, though: Google Chrome.  My understanding is that Google uses their enormous cache of websites to extensively test Chrome (and has throughout the browser&#039;s development).  This seems to be test-driven development in every sense of the word, as the test cases are clearly outlined beforehand (the browser must render site x properly) and used as the basis for releasing builds publicly.

However, Chrome has a little more than 1% market share, so it may not meet your definition of an exceptional product (though I believe it is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it may be difficult to find good examples, because most commercially successful development processes are walled gardens.  We may never know exactly how Amazon&#8217;s platform was built unless an ex-employee writes a book or Amazon themselves choose to publish a case study.</p>
<p>I will take a stab, though: Google Chrome.  My understanding is that Google uses their enormous cache of websites to extensively test Chrome (and has throughout the browser&#8217;s development).  This seems to be test-driven development in every sense of the word, as the test cases are clearly outlined beforehand (the browser must render site x properly) and used as the basis for releasing builds publicly.</p>
<p>However, Chrome has a little more than 1% market share, so it may not meet your definition of an exceptional product (though I believe it is).</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by EGHM</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-33618</link>
		<dc:creator>EGHM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-33618</guid>
		<description>Ten years is rather typical of how long it takes for new technologies, tools, and techniques to make it into main stream IT.  So I don&#039;t find it to surprising that success and failure stories of TDD are still hard to find.  Given how few TDD &quot;experts&quot; exist, many of the success stories do not get told, as the people who teach TDD are usually contractually obligated to not talk about the client and clients  with success stories may also view TDD as a competitive advantage.

Couple that with the points Jeffrey Fredrick makes and the set of awesome TDD stories is cut down even further.  It takes a lot more than great software and quality to make a successful product, let alone an awesome one.  In the extreme I know of at least two instances where high quality did not align with the business model resulting in overall failure.  I have 3 success stories from a client I worked with that were published, but I get the feeling they don&#039;t meet your definition of awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ten years is rather typical of how long it takes for new technologies, tools, and techniques to make it into main stream IT.  So I don&#8217;t find it to surprising that success and failure stories of TDD are still hard to find.  Given how few TDD &#8220;experts&#8221; exist, many of the success stories do not get told, as the people who teach TDD are usually contractually obligated to not talk about the client and clients  with success stories may also view TDD as a competitive advantage.</p>
<p>Couple that with the points Jeffrey Fredrick makes and the set of awesome TDD stories is cut down even further.  It takes a lot more than great software and quality to make a successful product, let alone an awesome one.  In the extreme I know of at least two instances where high quality did not align with the business model resulting in overall failure.  I have 3 success stories from a client I worked with that were published, but I get the feeling they don&#8217;t meet your definition of awesome.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are some examples of awesome companies/products built with TDD? by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/08/14/what-are-some-examples-of-awesome-companiesproducts-built-with-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-33613</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=509#comment-33613</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re dealing with the law of small numbers.

Can you think of 100 awesome companies?
How many truly exceptional individuals are there?
What percentage of all developers actually do TDD?

Looking for the intersection of three small percentages is going to be difficult.

That said, I think awesome companies/products are not correlated with TDD. I think the impact of implementation techniques are dwarfed by product management &amp; corporate strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re dealing with the law of small numbers.</p>
<p>Can you think of 100 awesome companies?<br />
How many truly exceptional individuals are there?<br />
What percentage of all developers actually do TDD?</p>
<p>Looking for the intersection of three small percentages is going to be difficult.</p>
<p>That said, I think awesome companies/products are not correlated with TDD. I think the impact of implementation techniques are dwarfed by product management &amp; corporate strategy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Simply Scheme is available online by Jeffrey Fredrick</title>
		<link>http://morgane.com/2009/07/07/simply-scheme-is-available-online/comment-page-1/#comment-30924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Fredrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgane.com/?p=500#comment-30924</guid>
		<description>Nice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice!</p>
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